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Julia Zavadsky: What kind of limi- assumptions about other traditions and do our best to
tations have gotten in the way of leave those at the door. Seeing ourselves and the world as
collaboration—musical, financial, others see us can be the greatest benefit of collaboration.
or otherwise?
Joshua Jacobson: Yes, to echo what Di-
Thomas Lloyd: Let me mention more ana said before, I think we often paint with
personal limitations that I’ve had to con- a very wide brush. I have colleagues, mu-
front in myself. In the first place, simply sicologists and ethnomusicologists, who re-
overcoming resistance to reaching out to fuse to use the term “Jewish music.” They
conductors and singers I’ve never worked prefer to say “music from Jewish traditions.” And there
with before, especially those who work in very different are many different Jewish traditions. There are African
identity spaces from the ones I’m used to. This is a fear Jewish traditions, Asian Jewish traditions, Polish, and
not that different from the fear of a child moving into Sephardic (from Spain), and they’re all quite different.
a new neighborhood and working up the gumption to Also Rollo, if I can elaborate on your “A” of the acro-
knock on the door of the house next door to ask, “Can nym (referenced in part 1), let’s be aware of standards.
you come out and play?” Within any tradition, there is good music, there is me-
As a grad student and young professor starting to diocre music, there is boring music. And that’s true,
attend ACDA conferences, I was surprised to never see whether we’re speaking about the Eurocentric repertoire
HBCU [Historical Black Colleges and Universities] or music from a different ethnic tradition that we want
choirs perform. I knew from my studies that there was to explore. Also, we should beware of consulting people
a strong choral tradition there from which the Spiritu- who are self-declared experts. We do need to reach out,
als first became known to the world. I already knew I but not everybody who says that they know about the
loved this music, but I needed a more personal expe- tradition actually knows. With Zamir, I have made a
rience of the tradition before I would be comfortable point of reaching out to ensembles that work in other
conducting these iconic arrangements. I began reach- musical traditions. We have enjoyed collaborating with
ing out to directors at the universities of Fisk, Howard, Arab musicians and African American gospel choirs.
and later Lincoln. They all were more than welcoming Just one other point, and that is that collaboration can
to invite us into their world. The lessons we all learned be a loaded word in some contexts. Some people see it as
from these gifted singers and their esteemed conductors a word for selling out. So, for example, in Israel or Pales-
would last for a lifetime. tine, an Arab who works with a Jew might be designated
Other personal challenges were the need to develop as a collaborator. That can be a very dangerous term.
a more generous capacity for patience and creative em- So let’s just acknowledge that there are two sides to col-
pathy. You need to take the time to really listen and laboration and we need to be very careful, and as you’ve
understand the perspective of an ensemble you hope all said, very respectful.
to collaborate with. How would the project support the
work that they are trying to accomplish? Their goals Rollo Dilworth: Yes, it’s so important to
might not be the same as yours, and you have to be sort out and redefine what we think about
willing to adapt your own expectations to include the the term “collaboration” and understand
priorities of both choirs. that, as Tom also said, there have to be
Choirs also may have different operating budgets shared goals and there has to be an equal
and sources of support. Some choirs have very differ- sense from the ensembles that there is a shared power in
ent perspectives on what it means to sing sacred music. that infrastructure. Any time there is one ensemble that
For some, singing is an act of religious faith and prayer; may have more financial means than the other, the pos-
others are comfortable singing sacred music only in a sibility exists for a power imbalance to occur.
secular context. With this and many other similar cul-
tural issues, we need to become aware of our ingrown

58 CHORAL JOURNAL October 2023 Volume 64 Number 3