Page 24 - CJNov_Dec24

An Interview with Stephen Cleobury

the sense that if you are overly flamboyant in your ges- Summary of Conducting Responses
tures, it is a distraction to the worshipers. I think that’s Cleobury views gesture as important because it
a difficult one to balance, but if we’re talking about prevents the conductor from having to talk too often.
a secular context in a concert hall, it’s very different. Music on the printed page is a logical representation
The other thing, curiously, that one has to do with chil- of sound; but in a sense, it transforms a dynamic art,
dren, or with amateur choirs, is actually to teach them one that is revealed in time, into a static art. The way
to respond to your gestures. I’ve seen lots of people in past seeing music as a static, prescribed presentation on
conducting classes being told how to do these wonder- the page is to see it in motion, which is where gesture
ful gestures, but it isn’t much good if the singers aren’t comes in. Conducting gesture can show degrees of mo-
going to follow them. On the other hand, with a really tion in the interpretation where the notated music falls
good professional choir, they’ll follow everything you do, short. When Cleobury says, “the more they see it, the
so you have to make sure you’re very careful. more they learn about the music,” he is referring to
another dimension beyond rhythm, tempo, or dynam-
Is there a difference in the conducting styles be- ics—he is referring to motion.
tween British and American conductors? When asked about conducting techniques applied in
his own style and that of the students he teaches, Cleo-
I think it’s true to say that in my limited experience in bury mentions several items to practice. One should
America, you have a much more organized instructional avoid mouthing words to the choir, as it can be unhelp-
system of teaching, which until recently we haven’t had ful particularly in polyphonic music. One should avoid
here, but it’s something that’s developing. For example, mirroring with the non-dominant hand what the domi-
in Cambridge we recently introduced a course in choral nant hand is doing. Attention should be given to the
conducting…and I think, obviously, that is a good thing. size of the gestures, considering the size of the ensem-
When I was younger, I was never formally taught how ble and the distance they are from the conductor. In
to conduct, and most of what I do I picked up myself addition, choristers young and old should be taught to
by looking at other people and seeing what works and respond to gestural communication from the podium.
doesn’t work. Of course, it’s true about conducting that
however much you teach, and also however well you’re
taught, you still can actually only get your experience Category 4: Leadership
live on the podium. I sometimes think, however, that if
the teaching method is overly prescribed, as it were, that
it doesn’t allow for individual expression to such a great Regarding nerves, you have said, “bring the
extent. choir up to a peak of performance but without
I’ve also seen it in some conducting classes here [in making them anxious and nervous about it, so
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the U.K.]; a teacher will say, “This is how you conduct. that they can give it their best.” Please elabo-
These are the gestures you use.” Then you find a series rate on why it’s important to keep in mind the
of people coming out looking like that conductor. But psychological state of the singers in perfor-
they are different people. Gesture is incredibly impor- mance.
tant, because if you’re good at showing it and you train
your singers to respond to it, then you don’t have to talk This is extremely important. However good you are
so much. I think the habit of talking too much in re- at detecting mistakes, or however good your gestures
hearsal is quite problematic. They want to see it, and the are, so on and so forth, if you misread the mood, as it
more they see it, the more they learn about the music. were, of the room or the group, you’re going to be in
trouble. Certainly with children, during the course of
my career, I’ve found that increasingly it works on “less
stick and more carrot,” to use that old expression. In

22 CHORAL JOURNAL November/December 2024 Volume 65 Number 4